“My faith is important for me in this role because it's the work of God at the end of it all.”
Voices of Change Episode 5: Lucy Esipila, Caritas Africa Regional Coordinator on COP28 and African climate perspectives
Dive into an enlightening conversation on "Voices of Change," CAFOD's impactful podcast series, featuring Lucy Esipila, the pioneering first female Regional Coordinator of Caritas Africa. In this upcoming episode set for release, Lucy shares profound insights into pressing climate change issues facing Africa, progress since her participation at COP27, and priorities for COP28. Delve into her journey, her pivotal role within Caritas Africa, and the transformative power of her faith. Tune in for a conversation filled with perspectives on climate justice.
You can listen to the episode below, or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is a transcript of the Voices of Change episode with Lucy Esipila.
Celeste Iyinbo: Hello and welcome back to Voices of Change. I'm your host Celeste Iyinbo. And today we have a truly remarkable guest with us, Lucy Esipila. Lucy has made history as the first female Regional Coordinator of Caritas Africa. Hi Lucy!
Lucy Esipila: Hi Celeste, how are you doing?
Celeste Iyinbo: I am good. I'm good. How are you?
Lucy Esipila: I'm doing very well.
Celeste Iyinbo: Fantastic. Lucy, it is a pleasure to have you here. Can you start by telling our listeners a little bit about yourself and your journey to becoming the regional Coordinator of Caritas in Africa? That's huge. Let us know. How did it start?
Lucy Esipila: Thank you. So I am Kenyan and I'm living in Togo. And I started my journey at the Catholic Diocese of Maralal, I was working for Caritas. I started as an assistant livelihoods program officer. And basically what we were doing is working with local communities to address food security challenges. And from there, I got into a bit of work on gender and communications and eventually I became a regional manager. I was there for six years and I got to work with communities on diverse issues, learned a lot. As this is a community where there are pastoralists there, they face the effects of climate change, they face also the effects of having to share very rich resources such as water and pasture, and we had to work with them and see how to address some of the challenges. Later, I went to Caritas Kenya, as the Research, communications and advocacy officer. And then I got to understand national level advocacy and also got into the international space. Then I came to Caritas Africa as the Policy and advocacy officer and I was working mainly on international cooperation, looking at the Africa Union, European Union relations, the United Nations space and issues to do with the COP27 and then now I became the Regional Coordinator in May, when I was elected by the General Assembly.
Celeste Iyinbo: Congratulations, what an awesome CV. You've done amazing, yeah, fantastic. I was reading in your acceptance speech upon commencing your role at Caritas. You highlighted four significant approaches that are key to building resilient communities in Africa. Would you be able to just tell us about them? They were really fascinating.
Lucy Esipila: Thank you. So we have our strategic plan for the next six years and we are hoping to build resilient communities in Africa. And because Caritas is Church, one of the things that we have to do is to have engagements with the continental body of Bishops, which is SECAM. They are here in Ghana, just our neighbours. And so what we want to do is how can we work together with the Bishops of Africa to ensure that we are promoting ownership of Caritas, we are promoting an ecumenical cooperation and also Caritas in modernity. So we want to enhance our pastoral collaboration and communication with them. As we do our service of charity, we have the Bishops involved in their supporting us because first and foremost, the Bishops are the fathers of charity and Caritas is a tool of the Bishops for charity. And another thing that we want to look at is the building the organisational development and resilience. One of the issues that has been discussed a lot within this humanitarian development and peace discourse is on localisation, building on local leadership. And we cannot be able to do this if we do not empower local actors. As a regional office, we are based here in Africa and we have a role to coordinate the 46 Catholic charity organisations and we want them to be empowered to provide effective, timely and quality responses, whether it's on humanitarian, development and peace aspects. And as a region, we also have to see how can we continue to engage actors so that we can be strong enough to support our members. Another dimension that we want to do is advocacy. And one way for us to do this is to invest in research. In order for us to get legitimacy of the messages that we are passing. We will be represented in COP28 in the coming days and we need to have data to support the issues that we are saying. And this comes from the communities that we are working with through the parishes, through the small Christian communities. And the one thing that makes us stand out is we bring the voices of the communities on the ground to the international space so that they are able to be heard.
Celeste Iyinbo: Wow, amazing, amazing. So we have a lot to talk about today, but before we dive in to our chat, let's jump into our getting to know you a little bit more session. Okay, so it's a quick fire round, gonna ask you some quick questions. Lucy, are you ready? So can you tell us a saint that inspires you and why?
Lucy Esipila: St. Thomas Aquinas, he appeals to me, there's this side of me maybe many people do not know, but I really enjoy academia. I enjoy the whole writing, the academic discourse and learning and I believe in the significant impact that education has in poverty eradication, in development. And St. Thomas Aquinas is the patron saint for formal education and he played a big role in promoting the Catholic truths and he is a person, a saint that we can look upon if we want to strengthen our faith. And the only way we can do this is through Catholic education and also paying attention to the role that Catholic schools are doing, especially in the context of Africa. If I think about the diocese where I'm coming from and the work that the Catholic Church did with schools through basic things such as provision of sanitary towels so that girls do not fail to go to school. And the Church goes beyond the aspect of evangelisation. It has a threefold ministry, evangelisation, the liturgy and the service of charity. And if you look at St. Thomas Aquinas and the life he lived and how he inspired us, despite coming from a very affluent background, he chose a simple life. And he is a saint that inspires me a lot because of being a patron saint for education, the life that he lives and it touches so much in the work that we do on a day to day.
Celeste Iyinbo: I think it's really interesting when you're talking about the Church working in more than one way. So more than evangelising, actually providing things, things that people need, sanitary products for women, for children, for young girls. So a lot of people maybe don't really know that, but that's also what happens within the Church. So what is one item that you couldn't live without?
Lucy Esipila: I love hot water. I'm always having this hot water. Right now I have it here. It's my best friend. I cannot live without hot water. Yeah.
Celeste Iyinbo: What is that for? For drinking? To make a nice hot drink? Or just in general?
Lucy Esipila: Yeah, drinking and that yeah, a nice hot drink here. I love drinking hot water. I love soaking my feet in hot water. It is present with me every I do a lot of things with hot water. I don't know where the fascination comes from. Yeah.
Celeste Iyinbo: I do like a foot spa. Have you tried a foot spa? That's just so relaxing, I must say. Yeah, if you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, what would that food be? That's a difficult question. For me, I'm thinking it's difficult.
Lucy Esipila: I love potatoes. I love it so much. So when I was working far away from my home, my mum, my late mum used to tell my siblings, Lucy's coming, let's make potatoes. I love them, mashed potatoes, fried, crisps, boiled, all hash brown potatoes. I will eat potatoes for the rest of my life. In the Diocese, they used to call me Mama Viazi in Kiswahili, meaning mother of potatoes. I will eat them every day.
Celeste Iyinbo: A mother of potatoes. Yeah well that's a very good choice and they're so versatile out there you know so I think we all love a potato. What is one thing that you've always wanted to learn that you haven't had the chance to learn yet?
Lucy Esipila: So I don't know how to swim, Celeste, and I wish I knew how to. You know, we have a beach here, Lomé Beach, Marcelo Beach. We're by the Atlantic Ocean. I don't know how to swim, and sometimes I imagine if anything goes wrong and I fall in this water, I'm doomed. I have tried to go for lessons, but I've not managed. The worst thing that I have not been able to do, but I really hope to learn some day, it's on my bucket list. Yeah, now that I'm by the sea.
Celeste Iyinbo: Oh, that sounds beautiful. I think learning to swim is one of those amazing skills. You know, it's a life skill. And even more than that, as you said, you're based near this beautiful beach by the ocean. I could just imagine it. You just want to dive in and just, you know, frolic in the sea one day. I hope you do learn soon. Right, that's it. It's in my diary now. Next year, we're gonna catch up. You're gonna tell me that you're now like Olympic swimmer. So since you've moved to Togo, what has been the best thing that you've discovered about living in May? I think it is that you live in. Has there been like a really interesting place that you visited so far? Or favourite foods? I know you love potatoes. Have you discovered something else that you really like?
Lucy Esipila: I love fried plantain. I don't know if you have plantain. You have it there in the UK? Yes, yes. I discovered, yeah, I discovered plantain here. Absolutely amazing. And one of the best things that has happened to me when I was thinking about this morning, I'm coming from Kenya, and I'm coming from a different cultural context. And it's busy there, it's really busy and whatnot, traffic, what not, Lomé is a nice, beautiful seaside capital, not so busy. And what I have loved is my colleagues here, the secretariat, they have gone out of their way to ensure that my transition is really interesting here. And then there's the Kenyan community here in Togo, who have been really, really supportive. But the most... significant thing that I've come to love is Mass in West Africa. It is different, it is beautiful, the music is lovely. You enjoy, I really enjoy attending Mass here, the French Mass. The music is quite something. I mean, I enjoy, they go out of the way to make you enjoy this Eucharistic celebration. It is quite different from back home here.
Celeste Iyinbo: That's so interesting and you feel in the Mass, you feel like you belong there, you feel very joyful after Mass.
Lucy Esipila: Yes, yes, yes. The music is out of this world, yeah. I've attended here and in Nigeria, and I think every Catholic should try when they come to West Africa, then they'll see what I'm talking about. It is, they go out of their way to praise God, to worship, to connect you to God, yeah.
Celeste Iyinbo: And How important is your faith in what you do, in your role, you know, this amazing role that you've got. How does your faith play into that?
Lucy Esipila: I always go back to this one thing which Pope Benedict is talking about in Deus Caritas that the Church has a threefold ministry, to evangelise, to administer the sacraments through liturgy and then the service of charity. And these three duties, they cannot be, they are inseparable. And so Caritas is Church. And Pope Francis says that a Church without Caritas is not alive. And so what we do, what I love about it is that what we are doing, it contributes to evangelisation and we are a universal Church. So we do not discriminate. So where there is a need, there is Caritas. And the most important thing about it all is you connect faith to development, because every other person will subscribe to a form of faith. And through our parishes, we're able to meet different people. And as agents of socialisation, we can pass different messages on the protection of the environment and also loving our neighbour. So it comes in very well. And I think for me, this is the most beautiful thing that has ever happened to me, that the gift of Caritas, that we're able to make a difference in our very small ways. So my faith is important for me in this role because it's the work of God at the end of it all. It's his mission, it's his assignment. We've only been sent.
Celeste Iyinbo: So we were really grateful to have you join CAFOD last year when you attended COP in Egypt. So our listeners will be tuning in from around the world. We're so blessed to have people around the world who are supporters of CAFOD. And they'll be tuning in around the time of COP28 in Dubai, which is a significant event. Could you share with us your perspective then on climate change issues, specifically facing Africa and the progress that's been made since your participation in COP27?
Lucy Esipila: So the context of Africa is quite difficult. If you look at the intergovernmental panel on climate change, their sixth report, they highlight that we are not on track to keep within reach of the 1.5 degrees Celsius limit, which was agreed in Paris. And there is evidence that we need to keep our global emissions below that, and we must reduce them by 45%. Now here's the interesting dynamic. Africa is warming faster than the rest of the world. And if we do not address this issue, we will keep having this adverse impact on African economies and societies. If you look at the context of Kenya, right about when we were travelling to COP27, I remember in the Diocese of Marsabit where we had a big problem with drought. And early this year, I was in Malawi and... you remember there was a cyclone there, they had issues to do with floods. And if you come to this side of West Africa, we've had issues to do with insect infestation. And so there are issues that are happening within the African continent which are tied to climate change impacts. And when these things happen, another aspect comes up, migration. People are forced to move because of climate, because you're moving in search of... food, water, pasture. When floods happen, people have to relocate. So it could be internally or it could be among border communities. And then another dimension is on food systems. Where as there's a group of people who have enough food to eat, there's a group of people who do not have. And one of the reasons is because when there's drought, we don't have enough food. It affects the harvest. It affects food production. And then because of this erratic pattern, sometimes it will rain and then people will have food being produced, then we will have food loss and food waste. And there is a clear problem over there because of the way food interacts with the climate system. One, the way we are processing food, in fact the way we are producing it at first, when we are producing food with harmful fertilisers, we are affecting food safety. It has impact on the soil health. And then the way we are processing it, we are depending on fossil fuels, even to transport this food from one place to another. You saw when there was the war in Ukraine and the disruption that occurred during the, in the supply chains, there was a problem there. And so even the way we are ensuring that the production meets the consumer, there is a problem there. If food has to be distributed along very vast places, we have to depend on fossil fuels. And so the whole food systems, from the processing of food to the marketing it, to the distribution of this food, there is a problem there and we need to look at how this food system is interacting with climate. And so Within the context of Africa, you will see there's a dependency on fertilisers. We are depending on inputs. Instead of going back to the simple things which we have been doing, promoting agroecology, so that the food is safe for us to eat. So that we're able to build communities who are working together to enhance the food system, to enhance the local market system. And as we do this, we are building resilient communities where smallholder farmers are producing food in safe ways that will be safe for us to consume and that other community members are able to purchase. The market system is close to that. So within this context of climate, we are facing loss and damage. We are facing climate-induced migration and we are facing aspects of food systems. And I have brought up the issues of fossil fuels because we need to decarbonise urgently. And also the way the world is right now as we industrialise, we are depending more and more on products such as plastic. And we are leading to plastic pollution. We are leading to the cutting down of trees and it's affecting the environment. And so these are the contacts that we are dealing with Africa. And we are hoping that more can be done because the progress cannot be quantified as such.
Celeste Iyinbo: Yeah, I think you said really a lot there about what is truly, truly happening. And I think people have been talking about it and bringing it up and the fossil fuels, that needs to just need to stop. And but then it's like, well, everyone's using it. They're depending on it now just to keep this food system going. That is not actually fair to everybody. And as you said, people just are very dependent on it. And then if something now interrupts it, for example, a war, it leads to so many repercussions around the world so there has to be another way.
Lucy Esipila: I wanted to say Africa has a good percentage of arable land, 64 percent. And if you look, most of the produce is imported, I think 85 percent. And so how do we build resilient communities when we look at the impact of climate change and building this support towards smallholder farmers so that they are able to produce enough food for them to eat? And in a way that we are not dependent, the way you said, on fossil fuels, on these inputs that we have to always buy fertilisers that are harmful to us. So the dynamics are quite disturbing when you look at a continent with so much resources, but we face a lot of challenges. I mean, when we have droughts in Kenya, I think the side of West Africa which is able to produce food should be able to support them, not that we have to keep importing. And it places us at a very weak position, especially in the international trade system. So these are the dynamics that we need to look at. The climate system, food systems, the impact of climate change on the communities themselves, and how do we work together with the communities in Africa for them to be empowered, to be resilient.
Celeste Iyinbo: Absolutely, and you know you touched on agroecology. Would you be able just to give our listeners just a brief sort of explanation to clarify what that is and why it's so important now?
Lucy Esipila: Okay, so what we have been promoting when we went to COP last year with CAFOD is to see the adoption of agroecology because of its potential to transform the food system. And it has 13 principles, and I'll name just a few. One, like recycling and efficiency. Instead of waste, we are recycling. We are recycling in order so that we can be able to use things efficiently. We are also calling for solidarity, community groups coming together, so that as you're here, you're doing your farming in this system, we're able to learn from each other. And through building this community solidarity, we build the community work. We are not living as individuals. Even the Catholic social teaching calls on us to have this call to participation. And then there's this aspect of use of organic fertilisers instead of synthetic fertilisers. Synthetic fertilisers lead to affecting the, they affect the soil health. So we call for the use of organic products. And then Another aspect is the use of indigenous knowledge. I'll mention when communities, these local communities, they are able to look at some dimensions and they can be able to tell some early warning systems like there's a problem with this, and this will be an indication that there will be drought. So how do we harness that knowledge? They understand the indigenous seed. Sometimes we find ourselves in the politics of agribusiness buyers, where we push certain products to communities and we say, this is the law, you must produce this kind of food, you must use this seed. And sometimes they come even with conditionalities, the loans that are given to us. So these are the kind of seeds that you're supposed to use. Yet we undermine the local knowledge because they understand their context. They have been planting this, knowledge that is coming from their forefathers. And so, agroecology has about 13 principles about production, that pays attention to the needs of the environment. It's not about profit maximisation, that we will go and do monocropping, planting one crop in large vast fields using mechanisation, using fossil fuels. And as we make profits... We are harming the environment. We are undermining the smallholder farmers who are able to produce just a little for that small community over there. How do we promote family farming? So it's about looking at this simple, simple dynamics and going back to basics through these 13 principles.
Celeste Iyinbo: Back to basics, I think that is what it's all about. You know, people talk about we've progressed so far, but now we're looking at all these problems. But if we were to go back and just think, what have people been doing for thousands of years, perfectly well, and keeping the soils been fine until now we've intervened in doing all these other different things, and now we've got all these other problems. So it's really interesting what you're talking about, the importance of the knowledge of indigenous communities, the people that really know about their land and about their environment and using their knowledge to actually try to make a change in what's happening to make sure that their food and their crops can actually grow and they have a better life really. So I think that's really interesting that we're going back to realising the importance, the actual importance of indigenous people and their knowledge.
Lucy Esipila: Yes, yes, yes. Because the world for a long time has had to follow a specific model so that we say, if we do this, we have developed mechanised agriculture. We have to import this, we have to do. But what is coming from Africa? What are we giving to the world? What knowledge can we bring to the table? How can we also give indigenous knowledge a place in academic discourse when it comes to agriculture and food systems and climate change? How can we amplify this knowledge? What is it that we are doing that is not right now? And what can we learn from the local communities? And is it that one segment of knowledge is superior over the other? How about this other knowledge, which could be helpful, which would help us in terms of food safety, in terms of our environment, in terms of what Pope Francis is talking about in Laudato Si'. The current economic model of development, we need to revisit it and ask ourselves, development for who? Who is benefitting from the current model of development?
Celeste Iyinbo: So with the world leaders attending COP28, what do you believe should be the top priorities for this conference? Obviously you've mentioned agroecology, but considering also the African perspective. So you have spoken about that so far, but if you could just kind of summarise the top priorities.
Lucy Esipila: One, COP27 gave us loss and damage. They passed this decision on loss and damage. And so we are watching, we want to see how this fund will be operationalised. Is it new money or are we going to keep pledging on the same, same monies that have been there? And so we need to see this fund being operationalised and for it to be operationalised, we must take into account of the needs of the people affected by the climate change impacts. You know polluter's pay. So Africa is here, we are facing the impact of climate change. Communities in Malawi, they have mentioned communities in the Diocese of Marsabit in Kenya. They have been affected, they are losing their crops, they are losing their livestock. So how do we work together? Because if you look at the SDGs, the principle is leave no one behind. So let not one segment of society prosper while another segment of society remains at the bottom. And whereby one country has to make a decision on should we develop or should we look at climate change? I mean, how do we start looking at this balance so that we operationalise the loss and damage fund and communities are able to benefit from it? And another thing, there are commitments around climate finance. One hundred billion per year, I think. So we are still not meeting these commitments. And when we talk about climate finance, there are dimensions that we need to look at. Adaptation, how our community is able to adapt to climate change. When we look at these nationally determined contributions, each country makes a commitment on how it is going to take some initiatives in order to reduce, maybe to keep it simple, to make it, to reduce this impact on climate change. These are nationally determined contributions to reduce emissions. And so each country will come up with proposals. We will do tree planting. We will do this. We will reduce use of plastic. And so we want to see within this climate finance that a dimension of agroecology is put there. Food systems are recognized in their nationally determined contributions. We want to see climate finance portion going towards loss and damage, a good portion going towards a just transition, because right about now, people are talking about mitigation by abolishing the use of coal. We are dependent, we are addicted to fossil fuels. So how do we shift from this and have a just transition, looking at the context of Africa, where some economies depend on this, where you have countries like Sudan. This is where they are getting their incomes from. So how do we transition in a just way?
Celeste Iyinbo: Lucy, so were you trying to say, what you trying to say, so like, to transition in a just way, so it's not like, one day the law's like, right, we stop. So, stop producing oil, stop mining for the coal. And then the countries in Africa are like, okay, well, now what? This was the major product that you were buying from us. So, now we're gonna now be suffering. So is that what you mean by having a just transition?
Lucy Esipila: Yes, yes, a just transition, where you will have climate finance that pays attention so that we cushion people from the shocks that will come from this. Look at Nigeria, it depends on crude oil to make, to drive its economy. The world is addicted to fossil fuels. This is the truth. Fossil fuels are causing harmful impacts on the environment. So how do we see a just transition? So that we don't put countries in a situation where, what do we do now? So if we stop this, this is our major economy. So how do we move from this? And we need to also have discussions on impacts on local communities. When we say we are promoting green energy, what does it mean? Well, the local community down there, who has worked so hard to get to the national grid now, they have to move towards solar. So how will this work for the communities who are not sitting in these international spaces to debate on this? What does the reality look like for them? So there are a lot of ethical debates around this and the practicalities that come around this. And so when we ask for climate finance, it is for these reasons, so that we ensure as we are shifting towards protecting our environment, we are protecting the communities down there who we make, as we sit in these spaces where high level government representatives are sitting there making decisions, they need to reflect on the impact down there in the South. Where when implemented people will be affected.
Celeste Iyinbo: Thanks Lucy, thank you for highlighting those critical priorities. And I think you just said it really clearly about basically that it's almost like we're on a two tier system here, you know, the North and the South. And it's like the North going off doing their own thing and then just forgetting, well, actually, it's not going to apply well to other countries in the global South, for example. Who can't withstand the shocks of having to suddenly stop with the fossil fuels or make all these changes that they're not set up to just absorb this kind of this these shocks that could happen and it's just making that known and making those world leaders understand that before they start making all these decisions that is going to affect the whole world essentially.
Lucy Esipila: It is true. And also the leaders in Africa may have to also pay attention to these dimensions. What does a just transition mean? Because if we are saying dependency on fossil fuel, there are things that we will have to take into account, which is the main mode of transport that they may have to invest in internally. When you're in Europe, you will see they have trains, you're able to move from London to Brussels easily. But when you come here, it is different. The public transport system is not as developed. So what does this transition mean? Because we have this dependency on fossil fuels. How does it look like for us in the urban system? What does it mean to construct buildings which will have solar panels? How much will it cost? What is the reality for these economies which depend on debt and they pay debt, they service their debt in inordinate interest amounts. I mean, so what does climate finance mean? Because countries are spending a lot of money servicing debt. And they do not have enough money to address the climate change impacts. So it's really a dichotomy that we really need to address and see practically as we take decisions at COP28. Let us go back to the vulnerable communities down there who depend on people to make decisions that will make a difference for them because they are not causing these problems. They only want enough food to eat. They want their children to go to school. They do not want to find themselves being overtaxed so that governments are able to service debt.
Celeste Iyinbo: Thank you, Lucy. So before we wrap up, is there a particular message of hope or inspiration that you'd actually like to give out there, share with our listeners about your work with Caritas Africa and the ongoing fight against climate change?
Lucy Esipila: So this morning I was having a chat with the chair of the Caritas Africa Advocacy Committee. His name is Fr. McDonald. He's the Director of JPC Liberia. And we were discussing about climate change and the realities. And at the end of the conversation we said, each country should sit down and ask themselves, what can we do? It's not about laying the blame on other people. But what do we bring to this discourse? So if you look at your environment and you see that there's plastic pollution, what can you do? If you see that it is important for us to plant trees, green the environment, let us make investments towards that. And where people can be able to actually change and move towards solar systems so that we are reducing our dependency. So we all look at our contexts and we... All of us in our small ways, we take the responsibility to care for our environment, to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. So that is the message of hope because usually what happens is in the international system, people will sit down and meet. Negotiations are crazy. I have been there, participated, I've seen what happens at COP and it's about interests. And so at the end of it all, people go back home. You must look at what you can do for your home. Because these negotiators represent their governments. They will sit there and some people will push for agroecology, some people will push for climate smart agriculture. It will be discouraging when you're participating in these processes. But at the end of the day, it's about you, what you can do, knowing what is right. And I would like to encourage every other person just to go ahead and read more, interact with this discourse and see what you can do. It's about what you can do to love yourself and love your neighbour. And love God. That's how we can make a difference in this climate change discourse.
Celeste Iyinbo: What a fantastic way to end this. Love yourself, love your neighbour, and love God. Perfect. Thank you, Lucy. Thank you so much. Your incredible insights, your inspiring words. We are at a pivotal moment in the fight against climate change, for sure. Your commitment and dedication reminds us that, actually, as you said, each of us can play a part in this global effort. So to our listeners, if you are as passionate about climate change as we are, the world needs your voice, your actions and your unwavering hope. Follow CAFOD and Voices of Change to stay tuned in for our upcoming episodes. Until next time, take care and keep making a positive impact in the world.